Great Circle Associates List-Managers
(May 1996)

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Subject: Re: Help! Compuserve Contact
From: Gene Rackow <rackow @ mcs . anl . gov>
Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 11:26:51 -0500
To: brozen @ netvoyage . net
Cc: Shannon Appel <appel @ erzo . ORG>, list-managers @ GreatCircle . COM
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 22 May 1996 08:56:55 PDT."

It may be sever to pull all users from a service provider that is causing
problems, but it does tend to be effective.  A couple years ago I was 
having problems with a couple of major sites or service providers.  I had
tried contacting them through all the normal channels but had no effect.
Finally as a last shot, I sent a message to all the subscribers in the lists
from those sites stating that on a certain date I was going to be removing
them from the list since their site was being unresponsive to problems.
I informed them that I regretted to be forced into doing it, but for the
well being of the lists, it was needed.  I also put into the message that
I would be adding their site to the "denial" list so they could not
resubscribe.  I would also be adding the site to the FAQ for the list so that
others would know why they should not choose site z to provide them service.

If they didn't like this, they had 3 options.
First, unfortunatley, live without the list.
Second, Try to get someone from the sites tech support to contact me.
Third, move to a different service provider.  I also asked that when
they dropped from the problem site that they send a letter to the people
involved stating why they were leaving.

I was rather suprising to find in my inbox a couple days later a rather
lengthy message from one of the sites VP's asking me to hold off for
about a month on making such changes as they actually saw the light.
They actually started to turn around at that point and are now alot
better than they once were, and many times better than several of their

Bottom line is that places will listen if you hit them where it hurts,
in the pocket book.  

Brock Rozen made the following keystrokes:
 >On Tue, 21 May 1996, Shannon Appel wrote:
 >> >Not really, it qualifies it as an automated message telling the list-owner
 >> >that the user's mailbox is full. CIS has recently, for some weird reason,
 >> >started sending these messages directly to the list.
 >> You know, I recently had this exact same problem with GEnie. Why the
 >> hell did these major online servers suddenly lose their brains and
 >> start replying to To: addresses (or maybe Reply-To:) rather than
 >> envelope Froms? I sent a nasty letter to GEnie, which was promptly
 >> ignored, and so I was forced to pull all GEnie subscribers from my
 >> lists in self-defense. If I have the same problem with compuserve,
 >> they'll definitely get the same treatment.
 >All my lists are moderated. Since we only have a few lists which allow
 >active participation, I see every message, be it a bounce, post or
 >whatever. For me, at least, it's not so bad if the bounced message goes
 >into the wrong folder (I filter ALL my mail). But definetly agreed,
 >although I think pulling all GEnie subscribers is a little severe.
 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
 > | Brock Rozen | brozen @
 netvoyage .
 net | |
 > | Check out my Auto-Reply System -- Send me mail with subject SEND HELP |
 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------

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