Great Circle Associates List-Managers
(February 1997)

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Subject: Re: Educating large masses of users
From: "Dr. Manion" <CEO @ Citadel . Net>
Organization: Execu/Quest Marketing Consultants
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 13:27:32 +0000
To: list-managers @ GreatCircle . COM
Comments: Authenticated sender is <citadel @ citadel . net>
Reply-to: CEO @ Citadel . Net

   I believe you have an excellent suggestion. However, I'm not very 
opimistic about it working. I place very clear instructions at the 
bottom of each list  my firm sponsors or maintains. My experience, is
that AOL users refuse to follow the instructions. They continue to 
insist to send messages, "GET ME OFF THIS DAMN LIST!"

   Then when others attempt to help them and point out the 
instructions at the bottom, they are sent vulgar messages by the AOL 
subscriber. Then the AOL subscriber will invariably send 
20 or so messages, in a row, that they want to get off.

   I have tried sending them detailed instructions on how to 
unsubscribe, that doesn't work. I have set up a webpage where they 
can go to unsubscribe by simply inputing their email address and 
clicking on the button. But, they don't seem to be able to do even 

   I've wasted a lot of time and resources on AOL subscribers which 
is why I was forced to finally ask AOL to take us off their 
directory. I am the first to admit that not all of them are like 
this. However, a majority of them who subscribe or attempt to 
subscribe to our lists, are. They account for 3% of subscription 
base, contribute less than 1% and are responsible for 90% of the 

   Now, my figures may differ from yours. I've had a few list owners 
tell me they never have any problems with AOL people. But, then 
again, their lists are for programmers, software developers, etc...  
These people, usually have more savvy than the "normal" AOL 

   I believe that many of ua can agree that there are problems. Not only 
with AOL but perhaps with others coming down the pike. What needs to 
be discussed are solutions. Solutions we can use now, rather than 
solutions that AOL and others promise sometime in the future. I think 
your comments were a very positive step in that direction.


On  3 Feb 97 ,Pauline Price insightfully wrote:
> What if 
> 	- there were a standard listmanager protocol for commands
> 	- mail clients knew that protocol, and how to query list-servers
> 	  about supported features
> 	- mail clients maintained lists of active subscriptions, and
> 	  provided intelligent support for posting, suspending,
> 	  un-subscribing, etc
> Then our clueless users would have push-button support for what they
> want to do.  And we would have less headaches all around.  I suppose
> the world looks much different when you happen to have a stake in
> the technology/internet world as well as the personal happiness of one
> of the 'worst offender' types.
> We know it's not impossible, we've seen what the web and http have
> become.  I do alot just using the template feature of my mail
> client in the office now.  
> What would it take to get from here to there?  
> -Pauli
> > 	-Allen
> > 

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