Great Circle Associates List-Managers
(March 2000)

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Subject: Re: your mail lists on RemarQ
From: Rich Kulawiec <rsk @ gsp . org>
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 09:45:19 -0500
To: Eric Leach <eleach @ remarq . com>
Cc: list-managers @ GreatCircle . COM
In-reply-to: <38C7E3ED . 8B87CC1A @ remarq . com>; from eleach @ remarq . com on Thu, Mar 09, 2000 at 09:48:30AM -0800
References: <38C7E3ED . 8B87CC1A @ remarq . com>

On Thu, Mar 09, 2000 at 09:48:30AM -0800, Eric Leach wrote:
> Rich,
> You have expressed concern about the handling of email lists on RemarQ.

That's putting it mildly.  I'm furious with you.

> We would like to assure you that at no time has the control of any list
> left the hands of that list?s owner. By categorizing your list by title
> and subject in our directory, users can discover the presence of your
> list and request membership from you. We merely give them a vehicle to
> view their messages in our threaded discussion interface, once you have
> subscribed them to the list. This is an alternative to viewing messages
> solely in the user's email box with an email client, but functions
> exactly the same:

This is not an acceptable response.  Your arrogance is astounding,
even to me, and I've seen a *lot* of arrogance in my time online.

Your actions violate the policies of the lists hosted here, as well
as the compilation copyright which I hold on each.  You are directed
to take the following actions immediately:

1. You will remove all references to mailing lists hosted at
This includes subscription information, any and all archives of the
contents of those mailing lists, and any automated scripts or programs
involved in collecting any kind of data from

2. You will ensure that at no time in the future will any mailing
list or other resource hosted at be listed at
without my express written consent.  (I am the owner of this domain;
check the Internic registration records.)

3. You will notify any of your users who have accessed content from via, that content from has been removed
from your site because you were presenting it without authorization
from and in violation of the policies of

You are advised, but not directed to take the following actions:

4. Get a clue.  You've already been hammered by the community for
inserting ad links in Usenet articles, and you're about to get
hammered again (you don't think I'm going to keep this to
myself, do you?) for usurping the rights of mailing list owners.
You can either continue to generate ill will toward your site
and your business by taking things that don't belong to you without
permission, or you can choose to ASK FIRST, at which point perhaps
you will find people like me may be a bit more cooperative.

Or not.  But that's *our* choice, not yours, and you are
required to respect it.  Alternatively, if you persist
in the course of action you have apparently set for yourselves,
you will alienate increasing portions of the Internet community.

Rich Kulawiec
rsk @
 gsp .

Indexed By Date Previous: Re: Unauthorized archiving and presentation of mailing list by remarq
From: Russ Allbery <rra @ stanford . edu>
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From: Tim Pierce <twp @ rootsweb . com>
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