Great Circle Associates List-Managers
(May 2000)

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Subject: Re: webtv whitelist?
From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg @ monkeys . com>
Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 23:24:42 -0700
To: list-managers @ GreatCircle . COM
In-reply-to: Your message of Thu, 04 May 2000 21:57:29 -0700. <Pine . BSI . 4 . 10 . 10005042153240 . 6283-100000 @ castro . queernet . org>

In message <Pine .
 BSI .
 4 .
 10 .
 10005042153240 .
 6283-100000 @
 castro .
 queernet .
"Roger B.A. Klorese" <rogerk @
 QueerNet .
 ORG> wrote:

>On Thu, 4 May 2000, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
>> It may have escaped your attention, but there _are_ some other people
>> inhabiting this Universe with you.
>Funny, that was what MY point was: what is important to you doesn't pass
>that test for most of us.
>> Maybe some other less arrogant people care that Apple has helped some
>> random net-hooligan mailbomb me.
>And maybe some less arrogant people than you feel that Chuq's taken a step
>forward in usability, which is the real challenge of the net, and that the
>side effect, while unfortunate and necessary to address, is far less of a
>problem for the world as a whole than the "make it confusing and
>multi-step in order to protect me, even if it drives most of the net away"
>jive you favor.

``drives most of the net away''??

You have a rather inaccurate view of the net as it actually exists.

Apparently you are unaware that there are tens of thousands of mailing
lists on the net that _do_ confirm alleged new subscriptions... many
with a confirmation messages containing a clickable web URL that even
the click-and-drool dummies seem to be able to cope with... and that the
majority of those lists seem to be surviving quite nicely, thank you.

Face it, the only reason that you or Chuq or anybody still blindly
accepts mailing list subscriptions without any kind of confirmation
required is because your respective lists cater to extraordinarily stupid
people who are below the level of intelligence of even the click-and-drool
crowd...  and you know you'd lose a big part of your subscriber base if
you asked them to reply to a simple e-mail, or do anything else (e.g.
clicking on a web URL) requiring intelligence in excess of a sub-moron
IQ rating.

OK, so how about if we strike a compromise here?  I'll continue to strongly
advise intelligent people running mailing lists for the befit of intelligent
audiences to setup and administer those lists with modest, reasonable, and
prudent security precautions, but I'll also conceed that the kinds of morons
who populate your lists, Chuq's lists, and Apple's list are clearly too in-
competent to be able to reply to a simple e-mail requesting them to confirm
their subscriptions, or to even click of a URL contained in such a message.


(I do seriously think that it is reasonable to make some special exceptions
for lists that cater primarily to the lowest dregs of society, IQ-wise.)

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From: "Roger B.A. Klorese" <rogerk @ QueerNet . ORG>
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From: murr rhame <murr @ vnet . net>
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