Great Circle Associates List-Managers
(May 2002)

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Subject: Re: Charge?
From: J C Lawrence <claw @ kanga . nu>
Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 21:25:31 -0700
To: kirk Bailey <idiot1 @ netzero . net>
Cc: List Managers <list-managers @ GreatCircle . com>
In-reply-to: Message from kirk Bailey <idiot1 @ netzero . net> of "Sun, 19 May 2002 23:14:46 EDT." <3CE86A26 . B6AEC19 @ netzero . net>
References: <3CE80CA6 . 23974 . 4BE3D36 @ localhost> <3CE86A26 . B6AEC19 @ netzero . net>

On Sun, 19 May 2002 23:14:46 -0400 
kirk Bailey <idiot1 @
 netzero .
 net> wrote:
> Amy Stinson wrote:

> This last may have some promise. Bandwidth charges for email, with a
> monthly allowance, would be a step in teh right direction.

Enforced by whom, especially given the fact that it would be a
significant marketing advantage and value add to sell your
service/accounts as NOT under those constraints?

> No, it is not. More use should equal more cost.

More use of what?  Of whose resources? That's the basic model and
fallacy of the micro-payments model.  I already pay for my hosting and
bandwidth.  I don't pay for yours, and yet I spend your $$ freely (and
uncontrollably) by sending you IP packets.  The fallacy states that I
should/must have value accounting for that so that costs can be
equitably shared.  The problem is that the primary value being spent is
not system resources or bandwidth (which at that level are so trivial as
to be uncountable), but human time/effort on the resulting communication
and the results it engenders.
> A national do not spam email list? Hmmm, I like the flavor, let's do
> it.  We can set up a site, anyone can go there, place their email on
> the list, and we let merchants and advertising firms download that
> list for free, off the web. Anyone want to purchase a domain name for
> the cause?

Thanks.  You've just helped build my offshore SPAMmer business model.  I
now have a pre-collected largely pre-verified database of known good
email addresses.

I would argue that SPAM is inherently and irreducibly unhandleable in
any central fashion.  It can't be done.  It has to and can only be done
at the edge.  There are several ways of getting there, all requiring
significant threshold deployment effects (I rather like broad PKI
deployment-based systems, but that's for other reasons), but they are
all quite doable and quite familiar to people who've spent time in that
space.  The problem is that they all require broad public deployments of
an edge technology prior to the system being enabled, and well, that's a
cart and horse problem.

J C Lawrence                
---------(*)                Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. 
claw @
 kanga .
 nu               He lived as a devil, eh?  Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.

  • Re: Charge?
    From: kirk Bailey <idiot1 @ netzero . net>

  • Charge?
    From: "Amy Stinson" <e-list @ amys-answers . com>
  • Re: Charge?
    From: kirk Bailey <idiot1 @ netzero . net>
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