Great Circle Associates List-Managers
(July 2002)

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Subject: Unwashed, great (was Re: Please prune this list!)
From: Beartooth <karhunhammas @ Lserv . com>
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2002 11:32:06 -0400 (EDT)
To: "Roger B.A. Klorese" <rogerk @ queernet . org>
Cc: Thomas Gramstad <thomas @ ifi . uio . no>, <list-managers @ greatcircle . com>
In-reply-to: <3D25427B . 5080307 @ queernet . org>
Reply-to: KHLsv <karhunhammas @ Lserv . com>

On Thu, 4 Jul 2002, Roger B.A. Klorese wrote:

> Thomas Gramstad wrote:
> > Not at all.  Better to give them safe, stable and simple tools,
> > and encourage them to learn to use those tools.
> But what if, like most, they don't *want* to learn?  I can show
> you about 350 of our 400 list-owners who believe they shouldn't
> need to learn anything to run a list -- imagine how most people
> feel about email.
> > For most people that implies a good GUI (dropdown menues help
> > too), for example the MacIntosh platform; or more recently,
> > products like OpenOffice, StarOffice and KDE.
> Those UNIX and Linux UIs may seem good to you, but to most users,
> they're impenetrable.
> > Microsoft on the other hand, offers poor-to-mediocre GUIs, and
> > unsafe, unstable and non-simple products.
> But they *understand* Microsoft UIs, and things like StarOffice
> and KDE make no sense to them at all.

	There is hope. I am barely net-literate, less than barely
computer-literate, and don't even know DOS -- halfway between the
stereotypes you're both setting up as boundary posts -- and a
constant forerunner, these sixty-odd years gone, of the Baby

	Whatever I do, ignoring them, they have always come to do a
few years later -- in their scads and hordes, their myriads and
legions. As they retire, they too may turn some of their new-found
time to turn their backs on the never-to-be-sufficiently-accursed
blue screen of death.

	Neither I nor, doubtless, they will ever approach the
competence most of you take for granted. But in another year or so,
once I figure out an emulator for the things I can't run without
one, I will yet have an MS-free machine. And I'm working on my
wife, who is to retire also in six months.

	Hang in there, ladies & gentlemen, more of us need you more
urgently even than you know!
RR 'Beartooth' Neuswanger <karhunhammas (at)>
double retiree; linux greenhorn w/RH 7.2
Delenda est MegaSleazo!

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From: JC Dill <inet-list @ vo . cnchost . com>
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