Great Circle Associates List-Managers
(February 1998)

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Subject: Re: NT listserve
From: claire @ siberia . demon . co . uk (Claire McNab)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 00:19:38 +0000 (GMT)
To: List-Managers @ GreatCircle . COM
In-reply-to: <3 . 0 . 32 . 19980219214945 . 00923bb0 @ mail . silverquick . com>
Reply-to: Claire @ siberia . demon . co . uk

On 19 Feb 98 at 21:49, Gordon Burns wrote:

> I think Claire is answering a different question than the one I was
> attempting address, although it was some time ago so I may have
> misunderstood the question. 

I think I may well have misinterpreted it, and I do agree we are
looking at things from different angles :)

> The original question was I think from someone who wanted to >
> purchase list software for NT to run on his own machine and not >
> someone who wanted to adminster lists hosted remotely on a machine
> owned by another and running NTList.

Perhaps the two aren't mutually exclusive?  Maybe some lists on 
the questioner's server might be adminned remotely?

> I would agree with Claire that if you are a list owner and want to
> administer a list hosted on a Ntlist server then the remote control
> is not as comprehensive as others.   Remote mail admin will I
> believe be improved dramatically in the release of the new version. 

That is good news -- it'll make my life easier! :) 

> Both of the examples I mentioned in my answer are run on a remote
> machine, but it is OUR machine.  I can therefore do anything I need
> to do as if the machine was on my desktop.

Very handy.  And the graphical interface does look very neat.

> The lists we run are critical for our clients and we offer and
> charge a commercial rate we handle all list admin (they certainly
> do not want to) and allow the software to perform a reliable high
> speed efficient delivery. 

Yes, delivery speed is one of the other important criteria, and in 
an installation like yours, probly one of the critical ones: I do 
hear good reports of NTList in this regard, as well as your good 

> Just wanted to ensure that we were clear about what we were both
> saying here. I certainly do not want to get into a battle over what
> software is best.

No, that'd be silly -- I think it's a horses for courses thing, and I 
hope this sort of sharing of perspectives is useful.

> We all have different needs in different
> circumstances. NtList is great for ours thats all. 

In those circumstances, most of the things I was referring to would 
not be such a problem for you as they were me, and I can see how your 
uses would rate NTList much higher than mine would: it is indeed 
interesting to see how these sort of varieties in usage can shift the 
priorities, and how it would be mistaken to talk of "lists" as a 
narrow field, when they come in so many different shapes and sizes: 
those I admin are support lists with membership in the low hundreds 
-- a very different issue to your high-volume commercial ones.

But even for your uses, I would still be worried by NTList's lack of 
automated subscription confirmation, which leaves it open to abuse by 
"list-bombers" who sub ppl to dozens of lists, and a bit irked by its 
lack of such things as a duplicate message filter and ability to 
reject mesages with attachments.   Issues such as a NOMAIL 
option are more variable in imprtance: but the security features seem 
more problematic to me, which is why my earlier post probably sounded 
a bit too dismissive.  I'm interested, though: have you found these 
things a problem? 

I hope my earlier mesg didn't make it sound as if I'm too didactic
to want to learn from others experiences. Having been a remote list 
admin for some ime, I'm now looking to set up a bigger list project, 
doing more of my own hosting, and I'm interested to see how the 
different factors weigh in difft circumstances.  I'd be very 
interrsted to see a comparison of ListServ v NTList: am I right in 
thinking that those are the two 'heavyweight' options for NT?

Best wishes,

Claire McNab -- Claire @
 siberia .
 demon .
 co .

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